23 comments on “Will we ever be done explaining why Nice Guys suck?

  1. Genuine nice guys were raised to be gentlemen and to treat women with the highest gentle courtesy! As a general rule, women do not appreciate it! They often SAY they want kind gentlemen, but what kind of men do they actually respond to? What men do they actually have sex with? MEN WHO PLAINLY DON’T CARE! This is what many women find attractive! This isn’t my idea! It’s just reality! The uncaring, hump ‘em and dump ‘em asshole is clearly in demand! Genuine nice guys are rejected and uncaring assholes are chosen! Women get what they deserve!

    • I’m so glad you came here to offer your alternative viewpoint. Now that you have offered such well-sourced and articulate proofs that bitches, in fact, ain’t shit, I am prepared to reconsider this whole feminism thing and accept that everything bad which has ever happened to me has been because chicks just don’t know what’s good for us because if we did we’d all be sitting on your penis at all times instead of doing unconscionable stuff like telling you no.

      Thank God you came when you did. I was about to make some more life decisions today. Whew! Close call.

      Edit: Ladies, you can tell he’s going to treat you with gentle courtesy like he was raised to when he says, “Women get what they deserve!”

      • It seems the idea of women accepting responsibility for the choices they make is too much for you to understand! I’m afraid the viewpoint you expressed is nothing more than a childish tantrum! The harsh reality is that “Women get what they deserve!” If a woman repeatedly rejects genuine nice men who treat her well in favor of one uncaring hump and dump artist after another, she gets exactly what she deserves! If she makes repeated bad choices and is cast aside when her looks start to fade, it isn’t the nice guy’s fault! She has to take responsibility for her choices! Yes, “women get what they deserve!”

      • xenologer, I see you’re still trying to sidestep the issue! You’re just the same as any crooked politician! I don’t really blame you. If I complain that many women reject reject genuine nice guys and go with bad boy jerks, You can’t acknowledge it or discuss it! You must immediately change the subject or make some kind of sarcastic joke. Otherwise, you have nothing to say! I used to have real respect for feminists! But now I see the truth! They want all the rights and none of the responsibilities! You don’t need to make any more jokes… YOU ARE A JOKE!

    • who are you to say what woman find attractive? you can’t possibly know what we are thinking.
      also sexual/romantic attraction has nothing to do with niceness/friendship or else we’d all be fucking our best friends, girls and guys alike.

  2. @circlebill: I would take that more seriously if Nice Guys like you had any definition of “good woman who deserves nice things” beyond “woman who doesn’t give pussy access to other people instead of me.”

    And anyway. If we really lived in a just world where the only women who were treated poorly were the ones who’d brought it on themselves by sleeping with other people instead of you like they ought… if we really lived in a world where sexual fortune and misfortune happens only to people who deserve it… how’d YOU get so bitter?

    If you’re such a shining example of humanity that women deserve to be abused as cosmic punishment for failing to appreciate you enough (by sitting on your dick), shouldn’t you have been wading in pussy? How did you even have time to complain online about women?

    That’s the problem with the Just World Fallacy, circlebill. It means you deserve everything unpleasant or disappointing that’s ever happened to you, too, and you can’t have gotten this angry with women if they haven’t been turning you down and denying you the sex you’ve earned.

    So which is it? Does shitty stuff sometimes happen to people who don’t deserve it, or do people always get what they deserve?

    • Xenologer, I’ve been called a Nice Guy by women and I didn’t like it. I also didn’t like the results and effects going with it. I never tried to be any nice – if you’re good with me – I’ll be a sweetie – if you’re bad – follow me to hell, please! I do NOT defend the Nice Guy Condition, because, as it’s obvious – there’s something very wrong with it – like – it shouldn’t exist. Now, I don’t have unspent anger so I won’t be taking part in aimlessly biting-off chunks o’meat, measuring is mine or yours bigger on some psychologicly-femitwisted level, but I’m asking you this – can you actually be helpful and of any favor at all to those who want to annihilate that problem, or you would like to keep it for fun and anger management? What is needed for a Nice Guy to die and a Fuckin’ Normal Guy to phoenix-out of his sissy ashes? And without unnecessary and sadistic vengeful feminist adds to it, please! I’d really like your Nice Guy headshot, so don’t hesitate, but, please, be gentle – it’s my first time with a fierce feminist.

      • There is definitely a need for guides for dudes on how to not be entitled jackholes. Quite probably the closest thing I’ve written is my Guide for Men with Good Intentions (http://dissentofawoman.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/a-guide-for-men-with-good-intentions/) though that is more “how to not come off like a sexual predator” type stuff.

        In that entry I linked to this, which is probably more what you’re looking for. Like I said, I agree that this is kind of an important topic, so I’m tickled for the chance to signal boost some guidely goodness.

        http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2012/06/no-more-mister-nice-guy.html is from a guy basically chronicling what it was like to go from Nice Guy to nice guy. There are actually a good number of these online.

        Nate Hevens recently posted a really good one. http://natehevens.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/from-nice-guy-to-feminist-my-rather-unremarkable-journey/

        Crommunist also went through something similar. http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2013/01/09/i-was-a-nice-guy/

        If you’ve got anybody in mind that could use a bit of a perspective check, I hope that one of those will be a good fit. There are also some entries up on Doctor Nerdlove about Nice Guy hell: the friendzone. http://www.doctornerdlove.com/category/the-friend-zone/

        All that said, the reason a lot of feminists get vocally angry about this is that it hurts really badly to learn that someone close to you doesn’t actually appreciate your friendship and has been merely tolerating the awfulness of being friends with you until you wise up and put out. It’s not even necessarily an abstract theoretical “look how awful patriarchy” is thing at that rate; we tend to be speaking from a lot of very personal betrayal by guys who seemed trustworthy until it became clear that they weren’t going to get the only thing worth getting out of us: sex. Then they become entitled misogynist traitors, and that hurts. It hurts a lot.

        It hurts even more when a woman’s unrequited love is treated like the kind of thing that happens because of all those wacky out of control feelings dames seem to have, but if a man’s love is unrequited he’s being cosmically wronged and we’re the villains denying him his due. That’s a really painful position to be in.

        I’m adding this mostly because it seems like you’re still really defensive about the fact that women are pissed off when we talk about this, and I hope that it contextualizes it differently and makes it easier to deal with to remember that it’s because betrayal SUCKS and what we’re really upset about is that we just want to stop being betrayed and nobody seems to care. =/

    • Miss, you are clearly in denial! Women are paying a price for the foolish choices they make! You are trying to rationalize women’s foolish choices by attempting to personalize the issue! All your harping about some “Just World Fallacy” bull is totally irrelevant. You obviously can’t just address the subject honestly! So you have to try to sidestep! But you can’t! Today’s women are famous for passing over genuine nice men for some kind of bad boy jerk who doesn’t care about them. There are millions of decent men who are having serious troubles finding love. To you it’s a big joke. In the dating world, women’s choices set the stage for everything! Men are just trying to be what women will choose! For better or worse, the fact remains that MOST WOMEN CHOOSE JERKS! So more men are trying to be some kind of jerk! The whole PUA industry has been built on this! I sorry, but most women are fools!

      • I have no idea why a genuinely nice guy like you who thinks all women are fools, who insists that it is the participation and agency of women which has ruined the dating scene, and who thinks that women are only ever abused because we make bad decisions would ever have trouble getting his dick wet.

        I mean, I know that sitting here reading your obvious disdain for women is getting this old vagina frothing, so I don’t know what possible problem you could have attracting romantic partners.

        Just one of those mysteries, I guess.

  3. Nice guys went out in the 90′s, the same time “Bitch” was retaken by women, which is also on the outs… Let’s get our values in order and all be In Style – not ourselves – which is exactly what this controversy is about. This message brought to you from your hip and neighborly asshole.

  4. If anybody was wondering why women complain about Nice Guys, please see circlebill’s comments on this entry. When women are unhappy, it’s their own damn fault because they chose to do things he doesn’t like. When he’s unhappy, though, that is ALSO women’s fault. (Because it cannot possibly be his, right?) He asserts these things while complaining that women take no personal responsibility for our actions and the consequences thereof.

    If there are any guys reading, if you’ve been called a Nice Guy, it’s probably because you remind us of people like circlebill, and it should be obvious why nobody wants a guy like that. A man can say he’s a “genuine nice guy,” but most guys who would use those words are honestly just another circlebill.

    • To xenologer – I see your still having tantrums, trying to sidestep the issues and making jokes! Well, at least you’re consistent! But you cannot really be taken seriously! Keep up your blathering! You stand as living proof that most American women are not worth caring about! To listen to your convoluted meanderings, no woman ever made a bad decision! And all the troubles in the world came men who tried to be nice! Don’t worry! Genuine nice guys are already very rare! If you keep running your foolish mouth long enough, you’ll teach the few left that caring about most women is a bad idea! Soon you’ll be just one more lonely old lady that no man wants! Or are you over the hill already? Women who’ve lost their youth fall pretty hard! Good luck xenologer! You’re gonna need it!

      • Of course they’re not worth caring about CircleBill, because they won’t date/fuck you. The problem isn’t Guys not wanting Xenologer…….but Females not wanting Guys like you. If you Nice/Good guys were so ‘Nice’, and so damn ‘Good’……you wouldn’t all be single

  5. I’m a ‘nice guy’/beta male and I see where you are coming from. I stopped even thinking about attempting to plan to go out on a date fucking years ago. I came to the realization that I’m a pathetic loser with a load of baggage, sad mental problems and the thought of imposing this on a women kinda disgusts me. It would be very, very selfish. Frankly, anyone deserves better than an evening with me. Never mind actually having to have sex with me. Or have a relationship with me. For the record I’m actually not that bad looking. It’s just everything else about me which makes it completely out of the question to engage with women in this way.
    I’ve actually never spoke candidly about this before. I just try to be as nice as possible to women when I meet them and NEVER try and engage them other than socially. i’m pretty lonely but it does work out far better for all parties involved. Keeps me from being humiliated because of my own major shortcomings as a person and keeps women from being insulted and embarrassed by me trying to talk to them in anything other than a polite, respectful and social way. Which they of course would have every right to be.
    I’m 25 years old and I’ve never had sex. This is not women’s fault. It is because I am completely undesirable in almost every way. Some guys are like this and if you are fucking deal with it. It is your fault, not women’s. That or try to pull yourself together, shape-up and stop blaming women because your a piece of shit loser. I did try self-improvement. I managed to fix how I look on the outside though this but women are not shallow idiots. They could still tell from a mile off that I was a loser. This is just me though. I do have bags and bags of mental problems. Other betas/nice guys might be able to fix themselves. I dunno….

  6. If you self proclaimed Nice/Good Guys were so damn good, you’d not be permanently single, and only seen as ‘Friends’ by Females. As much as these Fellas don’t wanna see it, the common denominator between a Guy and all the Females who ‘friend zone’ him……..is the Guy himself. That many Females can’t be wrong, and misjudge a Guy’s suitability for relationships and sex. Just the phrase the ‘Friend Zone’ says alot how the see Guys view Females

    • I just saw that last line now I’m awake properly, it should’ve read:”Just the phrase the ‘friend zone’, says alot about how so called ‘Nice Guys’ View Females…………….but I’m sure you worked it out:P

      • At the end of the day, ‘Nice/Good Guys’ are just assholes with inferiority complexes, a lack of self esteem, and a junior high entitlement to Females and Sex………..and bigger assholes that the asshole jerks they criticise, and claim to be better than. And atleast asshole jerks are honest about being asshole jerks, and don’t try and hide it under a steaming shit pile of passive/aggressive, self entitled ‘nice guy’ horeshit

  7. Xenologer, in answer to your question that forms the basis of this story, the answer is, probably not:P

  8. ‘Nice Guy’ Syndrome. A debilitating, annoying mental condition that afflicts mostly (straight) Males, leading to the concoction of oversimplified ideas about why “bitches won’t give good guys like them a chance”. Typically, the subject whines bitterly that Females don’t ever want to date him, because he’s just average looking, and too ‘Nice’. He often attatches himself to Females who aren’t single, often Females with confidence, and out of his league physically, he misrepresants his attentions toward her, almost always feigning friendship. He does ‘nice’ things for his target Female, listens when she wants to talk, especially when she talks about troubles in her relationship with her Male partner, (You know, the asshole jerk the bitch is with, instead of him). By this method to manipulate these problems to his advantage, and get her into bed……believing himself entitled to her body, sex and relationship with her, because he’s been so ‘Nice’

    He’s prone to brooding, sulking, whining, and other emotionally immature passive/aggressive behavior aren’t returned by his chosen Female, the ungrateful bitch not offering so much as a hand job in return for all his troubles. He’s so delusional and self absorbed that he fails to realise that Women don’t find him attractive not because he’s too ‘nice’, but because he’s insecure, emotionally immature, lacking confidence, and abdicated his responsibility for personal happiness to the Female, and is resentful of her when she won’t take on the job. All of which reinforce his erroneous believe that, “Nice Guys finish last”, that Females prefer being treated like shit and asshole jerks, over ‘Good Guys’ like himself.

    I understand this is only a partial, and not complete diagnosis of said condition, but hope that it proves useful to yourself and readers nonetheless. Take care, and enjoy your Morning, Afternoon, or Evening……..(not a Doctor) Johann Sebastian-Wilson :P

  9. Bitterness, self-pity, thinly veiled misogyny, victim blaming, it’s like Circlebill is a cliche wrapped in a stereotype. He has to be trolling! If he’s for real, considering that a huge cliche he is, that is just SAD!

    He’s probably the type of guy who reads about a woman being killed by her partner and thinks, “That’s what the dumb bitch gets for dating an asshole and not a nice guy!” ignoring that most of the time when a woman escapes an abusive relationship, I’m willing to bet that she tells everyone, “He seemed so nice when we first met!”

    I sometimes think when a woman tells a guy he’s “Too nice!” it’s the same as the character in an action or horror movie saying, “It’s too quiet!” just before the monster/masked maniac/terrorists/gang of criminals attacks.

    And let me pose the same question to you that I pose to all “Nice Guys”TM; Are the “bad boys” you and your fellow “Nice Guys”TM constantly harp on about women dating actually douchebags or are you just confusing being confident and assertive for arrogance?

    For all you know, these guys could be the sweetest, most kindhearted, genuinely nice men in the world who care deeply for their girlfriends and wives but your bitterness won’t let you see past the fact that they’re confident, assertive, interesting and fun to be around, has a great sense of humor, tall, handsome and takes care of their appearance and you’ll angrily declare that he’s a “jerk!”.

    Hell, you could take a guy who looks like Patton Oswalt (Not slighting Patton, he is awesome!) or pre-weight loss Jonah Hill, a guy who’s short and heavy-set, give him all of the above traits (Minus being tall, handsome and athletic) and you’ll likely bitterly declare that he’s an “asshole!” too.

    There’s a huge difference between a guy who is nice and a “Nice Guy”TM.

    When women say they want a nice guy, they mean a nice guy who they’re actually attracted to, they find interesting, who’s confident, will stand up for himself. has a job or career that he enjoys and let’s him live comfortably.

    Not a bitter, self-pitying, victim-blaming misogynist with a false sense of entitlement.

    PS. If you ever want to see something that sums up a “Nice Guy”TM’s mindset perfectly, I suggest looking up the disgusting “I’m sorry I’m a nice” guy poem that’s been making the rounds for the last 10 years. It’s pretty much become “Nice Guys”TM’s Nicene Creed.

    Let me sum it up, “You’re a shallow gold-digging slut who gets what she deserves when your boyfriend abuses and cheats on you but you should go out with me anyway!”

  10. Nice guy and friend zone phenomenon is feminism at its best. Only women used to be allowed to complain about the other sex. Now thanks to equality, men can complain about women too.

    To understand feminist obsession with nice guys, you have to understand the underlying ideology of feminism. It’s all about maximum freedom for women, and zero responsibility. Women want to have sex with all the bad boys and then when they get mentally or physically hurt, they want to blame the whole male gender. The “nice guys finish last” complaint wants to make women responsible for their actions, which is of course absolutely not acceptable by feminists.

    So they take a male issue and twist it and turn it into “male entitlement” so they can complain about men once again. Of course there also must be “real” nice guys and “bad” nice guys and feminists will decide what these definitions mean.

    Feminists hate low-status men in general. The incredible bashing, shaming and bullying of nice guys is just another aspect of this. It’s truly sad to see. If anyone had a misconception that feminism was a fair and balanced movement, the war against nice guys has surely waken them up from their dreams.

    Feminism are so frustrated with nice guys but unfortunately the stream of nice guys is not ending. A lot of boys can’t find their natural masculinity anymore in this society and of course we will get frustrated men as a result. So to answer your question: no, you will never be done.

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