12 comments on “Wherein I discuss what freedom is and isn’t, or Why obstructing women from healthcare using religious belief as an excuse is theocratic sleight of hand

  1. When the women’s movement is willing to tell women to take responsibility for their own choices and stop opposing reproductive rights for men. Then and only then will you have a point. Until then just as men are told to keep their pants zipped and don’t engage in sex if you don’t want to be forced to pay child support for a child they never wanted. Then women need to keep their legs crossed and stop engaging in sexual activities if they don’t want to be a mother. After all it is the woman who chooses to become pregnant – carry the child to term and gets to decide whether the father has any contact or say so in the raising of the child. Hence it is not unreasonable then to expect her to take responsibility for “HER CHOICES” and pay the bills on her own. Instead of stealing the financial resources of the male who didn’t want to become nor chose to become a father in the first place. So if his choice ends at orgasm then her choice ends at conception. That is after what liberty means.

    • You are correct that it is hugely shitty to force a man to financially support a child that he never wanted, because I believe that the only time a child would ideally be born is when both parents are agreed that they want it happening. My personal opinion is that this is something people need to make sure they agree on before they have sex, because otherwise you end up with lifetime-spanning drama and heartbreak and general awfulness. I wouldn’t be with my husband if he were not cool with the fact that I absolutely will have an abortion if I get pregnant for any reason, and he shouldn’t be with a woman who would force him to support a hypothetical child that he hadn’t wanted.

      However! Because I can’t think of a way to legislate this that wouldn’t go to really awful places, it remains just my opinion and that’s good enough for me.

      However, and I’m going to be blunt because I don’t think I necessarily need to work too hard to protect people’s feelings here, if you think that forcing a man into a financial obligation is anything like hijacking a woman’s body for a pregnancy she does not want, then you apparently don’t actually know what rape is or why it is worse than simply taking a woman’s wallet, and until you know what rape is and why it is bad, I suggest you stay out of conversations about women’s bodies, because you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

      More info: http://thecurvature.com/2010/01/29/reproductive-coercion-is-sexual-violence/

      “How can I say that with certainty? Because reproductive coercion is abuse. It’s abuse because taking control of another person’s body (without their free and enthusiastic consent) is always abuse. And the last time I checked, abuse within a relationship made that relationship abusive. Indeed, the last time I checked, abuse which took on a sexual nature was sexual violence.

      Reproductive coercion = sexual violence
      Sexual violence in a relationship = abusive relationship

      This is breathtakingly obvious. But as per usual, obvious answers are obscured by cultural messages. And cultural messages tell us that if it happens often, it can’t be abuse! (Because then abuse would be common, and we would be culpable for not doing more about it and for not believing more survivors when they come forward.) They also tell us that coercion is not abuse, only outright force is — because, after all, if coercion is abuse, then abuse is really common, and … well, see above.”

      If my husband would be sexually abusing me to force me to carry a pregnancy to term because HE wanted it regardless of what I wanted, why exactly is it all right for a bunch of nearly-anonymous, uninvolved, sheltered men to do it to me? Why can lawmakers do to my body what I could criminally charge my husband for?

      That’s very different than forcing a man into an unwanted financial obligation. I’m not saying that forcing a man to support a child is good. It’s terrible, and disrespectful, and no man should go through it. But let’s not hold it up to forcing a woman to subordinate her body to someone else’s judgement and priorities like those are at all the same thing, because there’s a big difference between hijacking my body and stealing my credit card.

      You drew an equivalency between a woman trapping a man with a pregnancy and a man trapping a woman with one. I’m saying that these are enormously different because while the woman in the first case is curtailing the man’s financial independence in an inexcusable way, at least she isn’t actually raping him.

      A man trapping a woman with a pregnancy is also raping her. That makes these two actions very different even though they are both the actions of a degenerate human being. One is a degenerate and a rapist.

      • I can’t believe that you just gave a serious response to a guy who thinks there are stem cells in pepsi. I think even the other MRAs are embarrassed of this dude right now.

        Unnecessary.

        • If it’s any consolation, it’s a copy-paste of a comment I was making in a Facebook conversation. Identical!fuckery is identical.

          But yeah, the stem cells in Pepsi thing made me giggle. I’m sure they were put there as a food additive by evil kitten-eating reptilians from another planet. They may also be Nazis, led by Elvis and Bat Boy. Everyone knows that human flesh is addictive and psychotropic and we will go MAD with lust for the flesh of our friends and neighbors and then… then… well, I don’t know what then. Presumably I won’t be around for that part of the plan. =P

  2. You do realize that this entire post is talking about contraception, right? That would be the very definition of “taking responsiblity”.

    As far as the rest of your nonsensical comment, I can only say:

  3. Pingback: My Response to Another Spoiled Brat er Feminist. « Cyclope's Revenge

  4. The hallmark of feminism is to demand rights for women while at the very same time denying those very same rights to men. Hence as long as feminists oppose “reproductive rights” for men then women themselves neither deserve nor should enjoy “reproductive rights” themselves.

    • OMG waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the poor mens.

      It cracks me up that you morons think anyone gives a shit about your mouth breather philosophies. Keep wanking, buddy. Your inanities never cease to amuse.

  5. Watching these people complain about how they’re not free to dick with the lives of people outside their religion is a lot like listening to vampires complain that they’re oppressed because they are not allowed to bite and drink from whomever they want, whenever they want.

  6. Pingback: My Response to Another Spoiled Brat er Feminist. | Tard Scat

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